emotionally immature men - UPDATED

i was asked to do this post, and i think it is a great one. thank you for asking me, anonymous. it is very healing to write this.

i'm not an expert, and yet i am. my father fits this category to a t, and after living with him for years and then trying to get along with him after he left, i've got a few comments that i could make. i love my father, but i see things for how they are now, and as you can see from my blog, struggle daily to avoid getting attached to guys like him.

how can you spot these guys & what do you do with them? here's my thoughts...

mama's boys

this is so clear that i will use only two examples to explain it.

there is a picture of my father at his first wedding. his beautiful wife is holding on to his arm. he is holding onto his mother's arm.

where did my father go when he left us, his second family of kids? back to live with his mother. again.

girls, if they want mamma, let them have her. don't even try tug of war. just drop the rope. you do not want to try to win this one. first of all, you can't. second, you won't want your prize.

spoiled men

it's not only in how a guy treats his mother, it's also how he's been raised by his mother. spoiled children make selfish, insecure, unhappy men. when they say things like "i want to do what i want to do all the time," (gasp) someone has trained them they can do this. there is nothing worse than a spoiled man. spoiled men are made by mothers that dote on them, refuse to discipline them, or make them their emotional husbands. these guys are miserable and they will take it out on you.

angry men

these men are angry because they don't have boundaries. not being punished for their mistakes when they are spoiled leaves them eternally angry at their mothers for their perceived lack of love. because face it, punishment & reaction to someone's action is a form of love.

men don't listen to words, they listen to action. what did mr. ny read from my anger? i care enough to get upset. with mr. cuba i was trying to explain to him how to be a challenge to women & what we like. (nothing like giving a guy a CHANCE!) what did he reply? you took the time to do this so i know you cared. watch a guy try to make you jealous. what is his intent? to get you ANGRY, because then you care.

angry men are formed when their mothers didn't get angry [not assuming that mother's should discipline in anger, but continuing the concept]. they didn't respond appropriately to their need for discipline. they didn't learn boundaries, the mother didn't respond when they stepped over the line, therefore they think their mothers didn't care. this creates residual anger toward women.

insecure men

everyone is insecure. but insecure men are especially hard to deal with b/c this turns into a need to control. it also turns into unreasonable jealousy. and clinginess. with insecure men, YOU are the man instead.

when a boy isn't taught boundaries, he is insecure in where he fits in society and with women. since he is never corrected for behavior that hurts other people, he doesn't have a sense of security about how to relate to them and make them happy. he doesn't feel confident he can make a woman happy, and so he never feels entirely like he's THE MAN. he's not quite sure, and you won't be either.

insecure men won't go places on their own. like go visit their daughter just by themselves. they won't venture out without a support system, and this means that if you are with one of these guys, you are chained to him. it's exhausting. he needs you because he is afraid to function on his own. this is not taking care of your needs as a woman, this is you taking care of him. and that is not what feminine women do - they give back, they don't give first. an insecure guy wants you to give first, and then keep on giving because his emotional needs are boundless.

selfish men

this is the primary sign of emotionally immature guys. when a guy thinks it's all about him and that he actually can do anything he wants, he is either spoiled or hasn't grown up yet (or both). there is no case in life where you can do this without losing the people you love. so it shows you are in a place where you won't be with people you love.

i can't imagine a guy respecting any woman who put up with this. so if he is allowed to abuse her by being selfish, on some level he's got to disdain her for taking it. where would the love be in this relationship? and the respect? yeah, mr. ny must have been annoyed when i called him on his actions, but that is now balanced by a healthy level of respect. yes, i miss you and want you around but only if you will treat me well.

from a true life example, don't go here. don't give all to a guy. he will take and take and then seriously consider leaving you. if he doesn't it's probably because he's got few other options. i.e. you have money, he doesn't. giving to a selfish man is a dead-end street. you go nowhere, and in the process, you are nearly dead.

a big sign of a selfish guy is how he is in bed. if he's a taker or doesn't care about pleasing you - beware him out of bed. are you satisifed? does he care? if not, you better hop out & consider carefully his place in your life. and don't pretend other people won't find out about selfishness in bed. guys who are selfish in bed can become legendary b/c girls talk. families talk. everyone talks about selfishness.

blaming men

this is the one you will hear that will tip you off before you ever get to the bedroom. emotionally immature men will accept no (or limited) responsibility for their actions. she, he, you, it, they were always at fault. don't pretend this will change either. this is never your problem. blamers deflect responsibility, twist reality and downright lie to get all their objectives met.

smear your reputation in the dust? no worries. all in the game of an emotionally immature guy.

why? his mother never disciplined him. so he never learned to accept responsibility.

the problem for us as women is that men believe other men. don't believe they don't. so when a guy blames you for not putting out, what do guys hear? she's frigid. you should have left her! what is the truth? he's bad in bed & selfish.

outside of the bedroom you will also be blamed & men will believe HIM. so watch out if you hear a guy blaming anyone else or refusing to accept responsibility for his actions. you will ultimately be the target if you are with this guy, and the entire male world will side with him. if not legally, because you have proof of his misbehavior, at least socially.

career hoppers

want to see how stable a guy is? watch his career. if he can't hold a job, run. that is, unless you don't mind making all the money & then watching him try to take it. this is not to say there aren't great guys out there with weak careers. i know some & they are fantastic family men.

but on the average, if a guy has problems on the job - every job - and blames other people for this, it stems from his underlying issues. you can't fix this, you can only go along for the ride. which may get expensive, tedious, and detrimental to your own sanity as you move from place to place to further his elusive career.

what you should do

these characteristics reflect the embodiment of an emotionally immature man. don't let him grow up on you. better yet, don't let him grow on you, up, down or sideways. when you see signs that he is selfish, run.

if you think you can train these guys in, don't even go there. selfishness is not a removable trait, except by the person who wants to remove it. there is no chance of doing anything with these guys - or boyz - because they are stunted in their emotional growth and their view of the world, and women, is slanted. if they don't outright hate women, they are either angry at them or treat them badly. this form of emotional immaturity is not being young, it is stunted growth. your love & time will not fix this. if they aren't jolted out of it by some tragedy in life, they will remain this way.

emotionally immature or just not grown up yet?

of course, there are exceptions to every rule. because of my experience, i tend to like younger men that are less emotionally developed. does this mean they are going to turn out to be jerks? not necessarily. which i think is the point of asking for this post. how do you tell?

i think if you get a few of the above signs together, it's time to set some boundaries. it doesn't mean you have to run, but when you see road signs that say "warning: selfishness ahead" put on the brakes. set some boundaries & see what happens.

it takes a while to get to know people. even after the bad weekend i had with mr. ny, my friends said, give it time. you'll see more of what he's like as you get to know him better.

so i guess time is of the essence in this dilemma. over time, is he getting increasingly selfish or less so? b/c if he's falling for you & he's a good guy, it should become less so. if he doesn't become more unselfish and giving, that's the time to go in reverse & back out of the situation.

to sum it all up here's all you need to remember when dealing with emotionally immature guys:

eyes wide open.

posers

speaking of sexy packages...

boyz are really cute. i get so amused with them. get them naked & they like to strut around & pose like greek gods. at those times i wish i had my camera.

doesn't matter what age they are. boyz like to be nekked. stand there proudly, turn the head just so, flex, angle...and yes, he's arrived.

my greek god is in residence.

think about your x

[a post i put online in january. all in all, i batted nearly 100 with this strategy.]

So i miss my ex & am of course wanting to do something, anything.

but I'm not.

so i've done what i did with my last ex. i made a calendar & am x'ing off the days that i don't contact him. i'm gonna go to 60...

this is day #2. wow, i'm doing well. go me.

anyhow, here's the thing...

when you're feeling blue
all ya gotta do
is make a little x
on the little square.

and when you want to call him,
& nothing seems to matter,
you just want to hear his voice again...

all you gotta do
to take good care of you
is think about your x
just think about your x...
just think about your x...

(it really does work!)

20/20 vision II

along the line of giving space...

i've found that generally i can establish a "preferred interaction timeline" for the guys i date, which if we get along well, matches somewhat with mine. but is a bit longer.

hence the angst. (he loves me not! :( )

and then, whoops, there it is.

my challenge has been to lengthen my PITs to match the guys. often i'll be like, gee, i just have to talk to him or i'm gonna die. (granted, i haven't yet, but for some reason, i don't seem to have picked up on that.)

then if i just wait, tic, tic, tic, i will hear from him shortly.

i think you're pretty much in sync when this happens. if you can't expect to hear from a guy within a certain timeline - plus/minus his personal variant - then i guess it's just not happening. or - he's artificially manipulating it.

ah, the games boyz play to make us miss them - and chase them. tsk tsk.

full disclosure

ha. on plentyoffish.com there's this option in your profile which says do you do drugs.

yeah right, like anyone is going to say yes.

right under that is do you want children.

i'm glad someone has their priorities straight, drugs before kids.

lol.

:)

emotionally immature men

post - as requested - coming right up!

i have a LOT to say on this. :)

slotting

boy refuses to be put in the right slot. this is very annoying.

i tried the a*hole spot, but he doesn't quite fit there since there was some sort of explanation for his behavior. (i always like to start with that of course.) i tried the player spot, yes, that's a fit, but not totally, since he's still around! i tried the friend spot, nope. too sexy for that. boyfriend, not. ex-boyfriend, not, but closest so far. never-talk-to-again, already happened, that's out. f*buddy, no. the only place left for him is FWB. & why would i want that, cuz i don't want to hear about his other conquests.

i guess he might pick a slot for himself at some point. if he contacts me again. most likely, i'll call him the next time i go thru town & we'll see what spot he's picked.

the interesting thing is, that it's difficult to tell a player that doesn't care from one who does. i don't particularly mind players. especially if they're from out of town. no sense in tying yourself down to someone who's not around. i have a number of boyz i've dated that are players & as long as they treat me well, let them play. players that don't care = a*holes. players that do, that's where the slotting trouble starts.

some girls can just walk away from their boyz. i really wish i could. problem is, i'm so damn picky that i like only like 1 guy/year. and ones that i like, i really like. so why kick them back out of my life if they're good people? if they have some future use (place to stay, show me around town, date), might as well keep them around.

i was reading plentyoffish.com lately. awesome site. best site out there for comments from folks. also reading a book called bootcamp for the brokenhearted. it makes a statement that men take their cues from women. it probably explains why mr. ny responded to me in kind. everything i did, he copied back to me. i thought it was just the sign of a player (which it can be) but it also appears to be common to men that are trying to please you and don't know you well.

well, in a few days i'll have mr. ny put somewhere in my head & be ready to move on. he's taking a while though. he's a very complex guy. it's rare to find a guy that has different sides to him & if i can take my pick of them, i might just do that...

in the meantime, who's next?

impatient love

hurry up & love me before you change your mind.

and leave.

i know you will, they always do.

if you take time to think about it, will you love me still?

will i love you?

who says love takes time to grow?

from what i've seen, it just takes time to fade.

or maybe you never loved me yet

nor ever will.

nor i you.

but one thing is sure -

we don't have time to find out.

love is fleeting.

flighty.

fragile.

whisper and it's gone.

so love me now.

or never.

i want you to want me, i need you to need me...

ego is a big thing in relationships. it's hard to walk away from someone who feeds your ego, especially if you're an ego-driven person. and who isn't.

therefore, if you decide a relationship is not for you, and your ego tells you it is, you play this tug of war. expressed so well by this song that i love, the theme song from 10 things i hate about you.

even if you haven't yet ID'd 10 things you hate about somebody (sometimes 1 is all it takes) letting them go "back to themselves" is difficult.

ego is why we keep around ex-boyfriends & call them up every once in a while to see if they are still in love with us. ooops. it's why our exes indulge us.

and i think, the only way to conquer this ego is to - admit it. and, gulp, stop using our past-boys as toys.

and the only way to avoid being used for someone's ego is to - rise above them. be apathetic, be friendly. be who are you again? that way when they seek you out to meet their ego needs, they either drop you from the list or realize they have to work for that ego boost.

since people want what they can't have (in this case, for you to want them), it draws them back in. it renews the challenge. now you're back on display on the "new" shelf where other guys want to bid on you & no longer in the "used" section of the store. and your value has exponentially increased. & therefore, the value to their ego much higher than before.

my new mantra: no more discounts on ego massages.

you want me to feed your ego?

pay the price.

that is, IF you can afford it...

practice makes theories

ladies, a question for you that i'm struggling with.

there are two versions of thought.

one is the "why men love bitches" version, tell the guy you don't want anything serious & he'll want it.

the second is the "getting to i do" version which is basically negotiate the commitment first, before sex.

i haven't found good luck with the second version. i've waited 3 months before sleeping with guys & done that whole speil & it seems to make little difference. sure, i may have a boyfriend for a few months, but ultimately the relationship takes its course anyway.

i haven't had particularly good luck with the first version either, finding it rather deceptive. sure, don't tell the guy you want a relationship necessarily, but why lie to him that you don't?

my best luck has been where i did whatever felt right at the time & just kept being friends with the guy & asking him out or responding to him asking me out as the occasion arose. kind of a back & forth that had less to do with negotiation or defining the relationship than just being in the same place at the same time & having fun with him.

as long as i kept showing up in his life & we kept having fun, things moved forward. when i started to try to negotiate or manipulate where they were going, things stopped.

so what about theory #3: take it as it comes, hold your own, and see where things go?

after all, guys that tell you they're not ready are ready for someone else. and guys that tell you they don't want to explain themselves while they are explaining themselves, are still - explaining themselves. so trying to get a verbal response that has any lasting power while the relationship isn't where you want it to be seems pointless.

i think i'll pick what's behind door #3 & see how that goes...

how can we be friends if we can't be lovers?

my switch to being friends with mr. ny was so successful, that i'm now even more confused. he immediately answers my e-mails (related to former co-workers, my work etc.) & is more responsive than before.

before there was a 2-day lag in response, now it's more like 2 minutes.

no doubt this means nothing, but it's interesting.

what i've learned about myself over the weekend was that i'm v. scared of losing the men in my life. any men. and trust me, they all go. my aim this time to fast-track-back to friends was an effort NOT to do that, since he seems an admirable friend but poor lover.

so now i've got what i want, which is nice.

how to turn my focus to other guys that i have no interest in, i'm not sure. but it has to be done. ugh. better to listen to what a guy says (we don't have a relationship) than what he does (act like he's having one).

why do i always mix up this friends & lovers crap? now that he's in the role of my ex-boyfriends, i'm even more confused.